Siheyuan: I eat melons while doing scientific research

Chapter 1350 Advanced? Backward? (5k)

During the internal review meeting, opinions varied regarding Luo Guo's desire to purchase a semiconductor production line. Some thought it was a good idea, while others disagreed.

I think it's a good idea. Firstly, whether they're selling it or giving it away, they've genuinely helped us a lot over the past ten years. Secondly, this item is probably outdated, right? Maybe it could be exported?

Those who think it won't work believe that this product is still relevant, or that many other products can be derived from this production line to complete the next stage of development.

But here's the problem: both sides have very clear conclusions about their respective viewpoints, but their arguments are not solid.

Should it be outdated by now? What if it isn't?

Could it be reversed? What if the cost is too high or the time required is too long?

Both sides have their own version of events, making for quite a scene. In terms of initial intentions, there's no right or wrong in this kind of thing; whether it's feasible depends on the specific circumstances and requires careful analysis.

"Zhendong, what do you think about this?"

When the leaders of the National Defense Commission asked about Gao Zhendong, the other comrades also turned to look at him. In this regard, Gao Zhendong's words carried absolute weight.

The words of the defense commission leader reminded Gao Zhendong of the famous line "Yuanfang..." In fact, according to the creators of that TV series, this line did not exist in the first few seasons of the series.

As a leader in the semiconductor industry, Kao Chen-tung has the most authoritative voice on whether this technology is outdated and whether it can be copied. His colleagues were all waiting for him to speak, which is why the National Defense Commission leadership scheduled him for later; speaking too early would hinder the exchange of opinions and the full consideration of different viewpoints.

Gao Zhendong smiled and took a sip of tea: "This matter needs to be considered from two perspectives. If we put this on the international stage, even our oldest semiconductor production line is not outdated, and is in an absolutely leading position!"

With a "buzz," the comrades began to discuss among themselves.

The ban faction had placed this production line in a very high position, but they never expected it to be this high.

However, the comrades believed Gao Zhendong's words. After all, he had led them to develop these things one by one, and his understanding of the relevant technologies was the most profound in China and even internationally.

Moreover, while we don't know how far others have developed, we do know whether they have chips like the C6108 that are used and sold on a large scale. They don't have any at all!

Digital circuit chips similar to the SZ61 series are available for sale, and even companies like Wang Guolao have them. However, the scale of digital circuit chips like the SZ61 is worlds apart from that of the C6108 and microcontrollers. After all, a few to a hundred transistors are incomparable to thousands or tens of thousands.

With Gao Zhendong's words and these supporting evidences, the level of sophistication of our semiconductor production line becomes very clear.

Those who advocated for a ban on the sale were immediately delighted.

"So advanced? Then it seems we really can't sell it."

“Yes, isn’t this a waste of resources?” The comrade stammered as he said this, and what was originally following the word “resources” is unknown.

However, the other side also had something to say.

"With technology this advanced, it shouldn't be so difficult to imitate, right?"

"It's so advanced, it must be able to exchange for a lot of good stuff, right?"

"Exactly! While it's advanced and still valuable, we should make full use of it. Things are always evolving. It would be a waste to sell it when its value has diminished." This perspective is quite interesting.

"Don't rush, don't rush, let's wait for Comrade Zhendong to finish speaking," the defense committee leader said with a smile.

Gao Zhendong hadn't finished speaking when his comrades started getting impatient.

The comrades also stopped their discussion and looked at Gao Zhendong. "Although...but..." Everyone understands this tactic.

Gao Zhendong laughed, and there really was a "but".

"But if it's our oldest production line, located in China, it's definitely outdated. In fact, it's at least one or even two generations behind!"

In China's semiconductor production lines, taking the most crucial lithography machine as an example, the 10m manual type is considered the first generation, the 10m semi-automatic approach type is considered the first and a half generation, and the 3m automatic approach type is the second generation. However, Gao Zhendong's vision has already been set on something even higher.

In terms of technology, PMOS is one generation, and the upcoming NMOS is another. Although Gao Zhendong doesn't particularly like NMOS, you shouldn't underestimate it; it's just as impressive.

The comrades erupted again, this time with excitement.

Whether it's for sale or not is secondary; I'm purely happy for the sake of our technological development.

The process of classifying levels is very rigorous, at least they know that it is very rigorous under Gao Zhendong. Many comrades had long been aware of Gao Zhendong's ridiculously high requirements for technical level assessment.

Even he said it would take at least one or two generations, so it's really unavoidable!

"So many?" The defense commission leader was overjoyed; he really hadn't expected this.

"Yes!" Gao Zhendong said decisively.

This time, the sellers should finally be able to hold their heads high.

"Since it's so outdated in China, there's nothing to worry about in selling it." If you have something better, why would you look down on the old stuff?

"That's right, this situation of being backward domestically and advanced internationally is excellent. We don't have to worry about being threatened, nor do we have to worry about being quickly copied, and we can still sell our products for a good price. It's perfect!"

"Let me think, what should I get back from Romania?" This comrade was quite impatient.

"..."

"So, what's your opinion? To sell or not to sell?" the defense commission leader asked with a smile.

He was well aware of Gao Zhendong's speaking habits. Before Gao Zhendong clearly expressed his opinion, it was difficult to judge his inclination based solely on the aforementioned objective conditions. Objective conditions are objective conditions, but Gao Zhendong's perspective on issues is often quite cunning. Moreover, he also possesses a lot of information that other comrades do not, especially in the semiconductor field. He estimated that what Gao Zhendong just mentioned was merely a drop in the ocean.

Under the watchful eyes of everyone, Gao Zhendong laughed: "Sell! But there are some things to consider. If any comrades have any questions about my opinion, feel free to ask. I will tell you what I can to clear up any doubts. As for what I can't say, then I can only ask you to trust me."

This was said half-jokingly, with a hint of underlying firmness.

Putting aside all the formalities for now, there are indeed some concerns among our comrades that need to be addressed.

"Comrade Zhendong, my biggest concern is the threat that technology diffusion poses to ourselves."

Gao Zhendong laughed and said, "There's no threat. What I suggested selling is the 10m process. Others are starting to catch up with that process. Some of the comrades earlier made a good point. Selling it while we can still get a good price is a good way to go. And let me put it this way, if we sell it to the Wang Guolao, I'm somewhat worried that it will accelerate their catch-up. But selling it to the comrades in the North, hahaha..."

Gao Zhendong didn't say what came after "hahaha," but his comrades probably didn't say anything nice.

Gao Zhendong, who has a good understanding of semiconductor development, is confident that if Luo Guo were to bring this system over, it would likely end up being used to death with 10nm technology, because they have gone too far down the path of vacuum tubes.

Going too far not only involves a large number of system construction and sunk costs, but also a large number of stakeholders. Especially the last one, while the first two can be replaced or tolerated with gritted teeth, the last one is something you can't even think about getting rid of.

Coupled with upcoming events and an increasingly rigid bureaucratic system, they are destined to race headlong down that path. A single production line to change the dismal future of Luo Guo Semiconductor? That's wishful thinking, and a huge overestimation at that.

Gao Zhendong's comment about the Northern comrades was a bit harsh, but the comrades knew it was the truth; otherwise, we wouldn't have been able to pay back the money we owed them so quickly.

Moreover, Gao Zhendong's methods go beyond this: "We can sell our production lines, but we can keep the consumables and peripherals, such as photoresist, high-purity silicon, spare parts, and sintering targets. If our comrades in the north want to make these small things themselves, the investment is large and the output is small, which is not cost-effective and very difficult. We should help them solve their problems and provide supporting services."

Compared to our already established industrial chain, it is actually very difficult for Luo Guo, which has nothing in this regard, to build a complete set of related industries. This is not because Gao Zhendong is unwilling to give or is being ungrateful after getting a good deal. To some extent, this is really helping Luo Guo solve its problems.

"Is it possible that they could exploit this line of research to tap into its potential and threaten our technological advantage in the short term?" It's very possible that they won't develop it further, but tapping into its potential in the short term could still lead to a leap forward in technology and applications. Although it might lack momentum afterward, that leap could still be quite painful for us.

Gao Zhendong chuckled, and when the topic came up, he was wide awake: "He has no potential."

Hmm? No potential? If that's true, then this Committee Member Gao is truly "wicked," so wicked it's admirable, his timing is impeccable!

The comrades all burst into laughter; this was truly amusing.

To reassure his colleagues, Gao Zhendong further explained: "What I suggested selling was the 10mPMOS process line. Let's put it this way, the technology of this line has reached its end, it has been fully utilized. Once it's in the hands of our colleagues in the north, the speed of the C6108 will be the limit, there's no possibility of it going any higher. PMOS, by its very nature, has a limited speed, it can't go any higher."

The comrades were half relieved and half surprised.

The good thing is that, in principle, PMOS's speed is limited, so once someone else takes it, there's not much room for further development unless they start from scratch and take a different path. But regarding Luo Guo... well, comrades, we're reminded of Gao Zhendong's earlier assessment of them.

After all, most of us here know how powerful the "principle limitation" is; it's an insurmountable ceiling!

Unless you can overturn the theory or find something new, but that's not so easy.

However, a very small number of people present knew that there was indeed a formidable figure here who could overturn existing theories in certain fields. Moreover, his ability to break through and find new things was top-notch.

Those who were surprised were astonished by the high starting point of Gao Zhendong's PMOS process, which was a pinnacle from the outset. The first mature process technology directly tapped into the full potential of PMOS.

That skill is truly rare. Most people progress gradually through invention, improvement, and refinement, but he skipped the entire process in one step.

"But even so, at least they've caught up with us in terms of speed for now, right?" A colleague who knew about computers and semiconductors had a slight worry.

In terms of pure speed, there is no fundamental difference between the C6108 and the C6132. A significant portion of the performance improvement of the C6132 is achieved through its advanced architecture, advanced instruction set, low power consumption, and bus width.

Selling the production line to them will give them access to the highest speed currently available using PMOS technology. They might not be able to develop the C6132, but it would be troublesome for them to disrupt the market with something like the C6108, since we're currently only selling the C6108.

While this situation can be prevented through agreements and other means, it's hard to say how effective these measures will be as relationships and geopolitics evolve; they're certainly not as simple and direct as completely blocking it.

Gao Zhendong chuckled. Such a laugh seemed abrupt at this kind of meeting, but it also seemed natural given his still youthful face. After all, it's normal for young people to be lively and energetic.

At least the comrades know one thing: the fact that he can laugh like that means he's definitely up to no good. Of course, most likely, the bad thing he's up to is actually a great thing for us.

"What other good stuff do you have? Don't keep it to yourself." The defense commission leader smiled too; there was a surprise in store!
Gao Zhendong stopped laughing: "I have already developed a new generation of semiconductor technology to replace the PMOS process. It has been handed over to the relevant factories and institutes for implementation. The performance improvement is significant. At least compared to PMOS, it is absolutely superior."

Gao Zhendong didn't specify the exact technology, but his comrades all knew he never made empty promises; if he said he had it, he really did, and if he said he surpassed it, he absolutely did.

Although NMOS is a transitional technology, it is quite appropriate to use it here to bring a little "semiconductor shock" to our comrades.

With a loud "boom," although there weren't many people in the venue, less than 10, the sound that was made was quite loud.

"Is there a new process again?"

When did you start doing this?

"So that means the C6132 is also becoming obsolete?"

"..."

The National Defense Commission knew that Factory 1234 of the Twelfth Ministry of Machine Building had made a significant acquisition from Gao Zhendong, but it had not yet had time to report what that acquisition was or how significant it was.

However, the National Defense Commission has become somewhat accustomed to Gao Zhendong's style of quietly making a big splash. The only thing they can't understand is where he gets so much energy. Not to mention that scientific research requires time and effort, the key is that even if others simply copy what he produces without any thought, they would still have a hard time succeeding.

Fortunately, the National Defense Commission is quite straightforward. If they can't figure something out, they don't think about it. As long as the product is good, that's all that matters. The speed and methods of working with people like Comrade Zhendong are unimaginable to most people. People can never imagine things they haven't encountered before.

It's like how some people can't imagine that someone can't learn calculus at the age of 14.

In short, just enjoy the fruits of your labor.

"By how much have we surpassed?" the defense commission leader asked with a smile.

"At least five times, and optimistically, more than ten times!"

As soon as Gao Zhendong spoke, many comrades' chairs creaked loudly, and they lost their balance.

Even the leaders of the National Defense Commission, who were used to Gao Zhendong's unconventional ways, turned to look at him and asked, "How much?"

"Five to ten times, that should be fine," Gao Zhendong said casually. Giving the comrades at Factory 1234 some leeway meant that even if they messed up, they'd still be able to at least reach a minimum standard.

But for the other comrades, a storm was raging in their minds.

Where else can you find such an improvement? Where else can you find such a breakthrough? Are you even letting others do their research properly?
When evaluating something, there are nuances to the words you use, or there are some subconscious habits involved.

Generally speaking, when we talk about "improvement," the magnitude is assumed to be no more than 50%, and when we talk about "surpassing," it's no more than 100%. A less commonly used word is "leapfrog," which could be more than 100%, but 200% is unlikely.

Well, when it comes to Gao Zhendong, it becomes "marching forward"—no, that's not even enough to describe it—"sprinting"!
Five to ten times the improvement! What does that mean? It's like everyone else eating one bowl at a time, while he just walks over and grabs the whole pot and runs off.

Even at his stated minimum of five times, that's still an astonishing achievement. And some comrades, like the leaders of the National Defense Commission, know that, given Gao Zhendong's habits, he's definitely aiming for ten times!
"Hehehe, no wonder..." The defense committee leader could only utter this one sentence in his shock.

No wonder he wasn't worried at all about the consequences of technology diffusion; he was well-prepared. With such high-quality technology in hand, he really had nothing to worry about.

Let alone the Kingdom of Luo, where the prospects for semiconductor technology are bleak, he would be full of confidence even if the 10mPMOS were to spread to the kingdom.

Those in the selling camp were overjoyed; what was there to worry about? The sale was a done deal. The leading figure in the field had agreed to the sale, and all the necessary restrictions, preparations, and backup plans had been in place, making their position extremely convincing.

Not to mention them, even those who advocated for a ban on sales were smiling.

Do you really think they don't want to earn more foreign exchange, acquire technology, and grow stronger? The ban is just a facade; their real concern is what matters.

They didn't approve of the sale because they were considering the risks and wanted to be more secure. But now, seeing the lavish feast Gao Zhendong brought out, what risks? None at all.

As for the risk of Kao Chen-tung bragging at the meeting, no one considered it. They were more interested in what the National Defense Committee's meals would be after the meeting.

At this moment, everyone knows that a technology whose period of high returns is about to end, whose upper limit is firmly locked, and whose current status has been far surpassed, no matter how advanced it is internationally, is still completely under our control. If we don't sell it now, when will we?
(End of this chapter)