Rebirth 2004: A lone figure in the literary world

Chapter 349: Those who sleep here were once more proud than they thought! (3 chapters combined into one, please vote for me)

Li Dong's pen tip hovered over the interview book for a moment, and he couldn't help asking: "Aren't you worried that such criticism will lead to more intense 'trials'? You know, Pamuk is now in his prime and enjoys a huge reputation in the world literary world.

Your words today are so 'harsh', will it have a bad impact on you? "

Zhang Chao leaned back in his chair, showing a relaxed posture, and said lightly: "Is this 'heavy'? That means you haven't prepared enough for this interview."

Li Dong: "..."

Zhang Chao ignored the stunned Li Dong and continued, "He stands in the halo of an award that Tolstoy, Proust, Joyce, Orwell, and Hardy failed to win, and is proud of standing shoulder to shoulder with Prudhomme, Björnson, Pearl Buck, Nellie Sachs, and Heaney.

And use it as the biggest reliance to criticize others - Don't you know who these people are? Yes, except Pearl Buck, I only found out about the rest of them after looking up information last night. It took me a lot of effort to memorize these names.

They are all Nobel Prize winners in literature too!"

Li Dong asked: "You mean, not all Nobel Prize winners in literature can leave their names in literary history?"

Zhang Chao nodded and said, "Of course, some names are destined to be just footnotes of 'Nobel Prize winners', while other names are the main text of literary history in themselves."

Li Dong asked again: "Since you rejected Academician Ma Yueran, you have been emphasizing the need to be vigilant about the Nobel Prize in Literature and the evaluation system behind it. If one day many years later, you are fortunate enough to be nominated, or even win the prize, how would you view your remarks today?"

Zhang Chao laughed, and after a while he said, "I think you have only just entered the interview state."

Then he answered seriously: "This is a hypothesis, and it is a hypothesis very far away from 'today'. Any answer becomes very dangerous because of this time span.

Although it won’t immediately become a boomerang flying towards you, it may become a bullet hitting you right between the eyes someday…”

Li Dong also smiled and said, "Then you can choose not to..."

Zhang Chao interrupted him and said lightly: "Of course I choose to answer. If what you assumed happens, I will be glad that I have done all the exercises about it today.

I think after receiving the award, I will take the award letter to visit my younger self’s grave. There is a line of words engraved on the tombstone: “The one who sleeps here was more proud than he could imagine!”

Li Dong said: "This seems to be a compromise? Do you think you will accept the evaluation system represented by the Nobel Prize in Literature in the future?"

Zhang Chao said: "This is a conception based on your hypothesis."

Li Dong was confused and asked, "My hypothesis?"

Zhang Chao laughed and said, "Don't you remember what you just said? One of the sentences was 'honored to be nominated'. You see, this phrase itself has exposed the powerful influence of the evaluation system behind the Nobel Prize in Literature.

When we discuss literary merit, we should not use the passive voice such as "fortunately chosen". "

Li Dong came to his senses and quickly said, "What if it was 'The Nobel Prize in Literature is awarded to you'? What kind of words would be engraved on your tombstone when you were young?"

Zhang Chao's eyes widened as he said, "That means the young me is still alive. Why is there a tombstone?"

Li Dong said awkwardly: "It seems that you didn't finish expressing your opinion on the Nobel Prize for Literature on CCTV's "Face to Face" program."

Zhang Chao said: "In that episode, I mainly talked about how we Chinese and Chinese writers should not be so obsessed with the Nobel Prize for Literature that it even hinders us from exploring new areas of Chinese expression.

But it is not only the Chinese who are its ‘victims’; the entire literary world may have been distorted by it.”

Li Dong was surprised and asked, "Is it that exaggerated?"

Zhang Chao said: "From the perspective of serious literature, or pure literature, perhaps what I said is too light. The authority of the Nobel Prize in Literature essentially stems from the excessive imagination of the world. Tolstoy, Proust, Joyce - the weight of these names does not need any award to endorse them.

But some other names are just the opposite: they are redefined by the award and then become the yardstick for defining others. We have to admit that the Nobel Prize itself may not have the will to power, but when countless people anchor the meaning of their life's creation on it, the award becomes a magic mirror -

Some people see themselves wearing a false crown of laurels on their heads, while others see themselves becoming prisoners of the mirror. "

Li Dong asked, "Are you talking about Pamuk?"

Zhang Chao said: "Pamuk is not the only one under the spell!"

Li Dong took a deep breath, knowing that the interview had really entered the "deep water zone" at this time, so he asked: "Curse? Didn't the Nobel Prize in Literature discover many outstanding writers who were not originally paid attention to? This should be a great thing for world literature.

Some people say it is like a lighthouse on the sea, illuminating those dark corners on the route, allowing ships there to come to the main route. "

Zhang Chao agreed: "This metaphor is very appropriate. Naguib Mahfouz was once ignored by the world. It was only after he won the Nobel Prize in Literature that he entered the field of vision of readers around the world. This is a good thing.

I do not deny that the Nobel Prize selection can occasionally unearth neglected masterpieces and writers, but when some winners regard this honor as a scepter that overrides literature itself, and even invent a new hierarchy based on it, the award has deviated from the original intention of literature.

I am not talking about the Nobel Prize in Literature alone. "

Li Dong: “…” If it’s not the “Nobel Prize in Literature” but is within the “range” of the writer Zhang Chao, then it can only be… Li Dong shuddered inwardly and didn’t dare to ask any further. He could only listen to Zhang Chao continue to “express himself freely”.

Zhang Chao's tone became somewhat cold and distant, no longer relaxed as before, and even a little playful. He said to the interview camera indifferently: "I have said before that I don't mind the Nobel Prize having a preset value position.

I have always believed that what is really worth being vigilant about is not the position of the Nobel Prize, but the deep-rooted power worship of the "weak" side in the "strong-weak dialogue" system. Mr. Pamuk may think that my resistance is a performance, but I want to remind him——

Those truly great writers never need a trophy to prove which side of history they are on. They write and then wait for history to choose their side. "

When Li Dong heard the words "They write, and then wait for history to choose to stand on their side", he suddenly felt like his scalp exploded, and he suddenly felt that the pen in his hand weighed a thousand pounds.

I actually have to write down such aphorisms by myself?

He asked in a slightly trembling voice: "That's what you do, isn't it? 'Write, and then wait for history to choose to stand on your side.' This is your answer to my assumption just now -

If one day the Nobel Prize in Literature is awarded to you, is it because the judges changed their values ​​and positions for you, rather than you changing your creative principles and throwing yourself into their arms? "

Zhang Chao raised his chin slightly and said, "The one sleeping here was once more proud than he thought!"

Li Dong didn't know how to continue asking questions for a moment. He flipped through the question cards he had prepared, but none of them matched the current situation.

At first, he thought Zhang Chao's words would not be so harsh, but Zhang Chao turned the table over and responded to Pamuk's criticism of him with unimaginable scathingness;

Then, he felt that this was a "personal grudge game" full of "gossip", and Zhang Chao would continue to attack Pamuk - he did so, but it was completely different from what he imagined.

Now, the interview has gone in a direction that is completely beyond my control.

Li Dong was both devastated and proud, but the interview had to continue. The newspaper leader who was monitoring the entire process outside the interview room had already given instructions through the headset, so he could only bite the bullet and continue to ask: "In fact, this goes back to the reason why you refused to meet with Academician Ma Yueran in the beginning - this is indeed a gesture of resistance, to resist being assimilated by the evaluation system behind the Nobel Prize in Literature.

Do you think this is okay?"

Zhang Chao sighed and replied: "When I was a visiting scholar at Xiamen University, I told my classmates that Pamuk single-handedly opened the 'road to modernity' in Turkish literature, which was a great achievement by a literary giant.

But there are many ways for a country or nation's literature to embark on the 'road to modernity.' Mr. Pamuk represents a typical 'external certification' path, relying on the evaluation system of European literature and even the Nobel Prize to give legitimacy to his creation.

There is nothing wrong with doing so, and it is also the choice of many regions. They introduce modernism, stream of consciousness, magical realism, surrealism, etc. into the expression of local literature, and create masterpieces in a way that is easier for Europeans to understand.

I insist on the path of "internal growth". I want to take root in the cultural context of Chinese literature and establish a value foundation in deep resonance with native readers. In this process, all foreign literary techniques must serve this purpose.

In fact, these two paths can be carried out in parallel, but when the external certification system tries to devour the internal growth space, resistance becomes necessary. This is also a point that I will never waver in the process of writing new novels——

True literary innovation is always born from the deep dialogue between writers and their native culture, rather than from speculation and flattery of international award standards. This is not a declaration of cultural confrontation, but a simple fact.

The vitality of literature always lies in its ability to sow seeds deep in the human soul, rather than being exhibited in the window of the evaluation power system. "

After listening to this, Li Dong fell into silence for a long time. He woke up only after his leader reminded him several times in the headset. Then he asked, "Today's interview really gave me a lot of inspiration.

I didn't expect that there would be such a grand national proposition behind a Nobel Prize in Literature. At the end of today's interview, if you were asked to give a message to Mr. Pamuk, what would you say? "Zhang Chao pondered for a moment and said, "One message... "History will remember who writes the stars and who wipes the medals." "

After hearing this, Li Dong couldn't hide his excitement. This sentence was so sharp and it was the best summary of the interview. But he still asked, "What if I give a message to the readers?"

Zhang Chao smiled, his tone became gentle, and he said softly: "Let me advertise my book - when you open this book, what you read is not my words, but the eternal contract signed by all the souls who travel between foreign lands and their homeland."

The interview was over and Zhang Chao stood up tiredly.

It is impossible to fight back against criticism from a Nobel Prize winner in literature who enjoys a high reputation worldwide without adequate preparation. Strength, angle, and height are all essential.

You don't want people to feel like you are a child crying and asking for candy, but you can't be too restrained either. Such an attitude does not appear to be polite in this context, but rather humble and cowardly.

Faced with this kind of pressure to express himself, Zhang Chao was more serious and earnest than ever when preparing for this interview.

Li Dong stepped forward and shook Zhang Chao's hand tightly, saying with emotion: "This is the best interview I have ever done in my career as a reporter - you said it very well. I should be ashamed of myself. If I had asked better questions, maybe you would have performed better."

Zhang Chao smiled, his tone sounding much weaker than when he was interviewed: "You did a good job. I said a lot of offensive things today. I'm afraid you will face a lot of pressure when you publish them."

At this time, the door of the interview room opened, and Xu Hanliang, the person in charge of the special issue of Yanjing Youth Daily, walked in. He also shook hands tightly with Zhang Chao and said firmly: "Don't worry, I have already communicated with the leaders. Today's interview will be published word for word and will be published as a supplement for sale tomorrow!"

Zhang Chao nodded and said, "Thank you very much."

Xu Hanliang turned to the cameraman from Yanjing TV and said, "I'll talk to Lao Wang from your station and try to broadcast the interview video in its entirety. Zhang Chao's words are really inspiring to Chinese literature—no, to the Chinese people!"

The photographer was very happy, after all, his income was closely related to the length of time the content he shot was broadcast.

As expected, Xu Hanliang kept his promise. The next day, the Yenching Youth Daily added a special supplement for this interview. Not only did it publish the entire content of the interview, but it also invited Wang Meng, the honorary chairman of the Writers Association, to write a long "introduction" -

Zhang Chao responds to Pamuk: The Nobel Prize "shelf life" cannot guarantee the eternity of literature

[On this morning when the autumn air is deepening, when I read about the ideological confrontation between Zhang Chao and Orhan Pamuk across Europe and Asia, I could not help but think of Mr. Qian Zhongshu's words, "East Sea and West Sea, the psychology is the same."

Mr. Qian Zhongshu was talking about the spiritual connection between Eastern and Western writers when they were creating, but that was a thing of the distant "pastoral" era of literature, when everyone could "know each other's chickens and dogs, but never interact with each other until they die", and retain beautiful imaginations for each other.

Today’s literary world is very different. It is said that the Internet age has turned the “world” into a “global village”, which I have not seen yet – but I have indeed seen the literary world becoming a “village”.

However, unlike what everyone imagines, the village head of the "Literary World Village" is not us. Not only is the village head not us, but the village security director and village accountant are also not us. At this time, how should we "engage in production"? Should we listen to the village head's gentle persuasion, the security director's intimidation, or the village accountant's temptation of interests?
In this dilemma, Zhang Chao, a young writer, with his astonishing theoretical sharpness, sublimated the debate originally limited to personal creative views into a philosophical speculation on the entire human literary evaluation system, and also pointed out a possible path for Chinese literature...】

The Yenching Youth Daily was sold out within three hours of its release. The Yenching Youth Daily editorial office was flooded with calls, with countless media outlets requesting to reprint the interview.

The Internet spread Zhang Chao's interview content to every corner that cares about Chinese literature at a speed much faster than traditional media.

The online world was once again abuzz with Zhang Chao’s declaration. His famous quote from this interview even became the QQ signature of many people:

"He who sleeps here was once prouder than he ever imagined!"

"Awards are like a magic mirror. Some people see illusory laurels, while others become prisoners of the mirror."

"History will remember who wrote the stars and who wiped the medals."

Of course the most popular one is -

"Really great writers never need to use trophies to prove which side of history they should stand on. They write and then wait for history to choose to stand on their side."

The "controversy" about Zhang Chao in the forum was completely calmed down for a while, and now netizens have nothing but "worship" for Zhang Chao:
"I think Brother Chao is too honest! Why bother competing with that foreign old man? Just learn from Mr. Yu Qian's three hobbies - writing novels, cursing the Nobel Prize, and carving tombstones, all done!" - Maopu Forum

"This is so funny! I think Pamuk will register a Weibo account overnight to fight Zhang Chao, but I'm afraid the registration will fail - the system will prompt "Your Nobel Prize certification has expired, please recharge your literary preservatives and resubmit your information!" Haha, will he be mad to death?" - Weibo
"I suggest that the Nobel Prize judges set up a 'Zhang Chao Quotations Recitation Group' overnight. After all, this guy's interviews are full of golden sentences. He described Pamuk as a 'patient with Stockholm Syndrome'!" - Banyan Tree Forum
……

On the evening of the day the report was issued, Yenching Television not only briefly reported the main content of the interview in the evening news, but also at 10 o'clock, in the form of a "character interview special", almost completely reproduced the entire process of Zhang Chao's answers.

Millions of viewers saw this young face on TV screens again after several weeks. Unlike the relaxed interview in the courtyard, Zhang Chao wore formal clothes and had his hair done meticulously, showing his serious attitude.

Although his words were a little difficult to understand for ordinary audiences who don’t pay much attention to literature, the basic meaning was clear to them.

Chinese literature must go its own way!

This connotation directly struck a chord with most people, and recognition of Zhang Chao reached an unprecedented level. Many viewers called Yanjing TV after watching the show, and the enthusiasm for leaving messages stunned the TV station's on-duty staff.

Yanjing Television struck while the iron was hot and replayed the interview after the morning news the next day!

At the same time, Zhang Chao's interview content was translated and published in the cultural section of the international edition of People's Daily - "Young writer Zhang Chao responds to criticism from Nobel Prize winner Orhan Pamuk."

Zhang Chao's "dual path theory" - the distinction between external certification and internal growth, is like two prescriptions for third world literature. He dared to point out the "Stockholm literature syndrome" suffered by some Nobel Prize winners, and this courage came from the deep confidence in his mother tongue culture.

When he said, "History will remember who wrote the stars," what we heard was not only a rebuttal to Pamuk, but also a century-long echo of the spirit of "first establish people" advocated by Lu Xun. 】

The New York Times also reprinted the main content of the interview immediately, but due to the characteristics of the American media, they focused on Zhang Chao's challenge to Pamuk - "Chinese writer Zhang Chao challenges the authority of the Nobel Prize, setting off a dispute over the discourse power of Eastern and Western literature." The article ends with:
[It is worth noting that Zhang Chao mentioned his new novel in the interview, which is expected to meet readers next month. After this debate, this work will undoubtedly be regarded by the industry as a theoretical practice of the "internal growth path".

Since Zhang Chao claimed that he would rewrite the rules of world literature with the context of Chinese literature, this work bears the heavy responsibility of whether he can fulfill his promise. If he produces a mediocre or repetitive work, then all his previous world-shaking remarks will undoubtedly become the straw that breaks the camel's back.

But on the contrary, Pamuk will undoubtedly become the "victim" to be sacrificed.

This is an unprecedented "gamble" in the literary world - one of the world's most promising young writers and one of the world's most prestigious Nobel Prize winners in literature, both of them put their literary careers as chips on the gambling table.

Even if the Nobel Prize for Literature is to be announced on October 10, this gamble will make this year's award ceremony much more bleak. Will Zhang Chao's radical declaration reshape the global cultural power structure? Or will Pamuk's majestic figure be like an iron curtain, falling heavily and cutting off the hopes of all challengers?

Let's wait and see! 】

……

"Now all the pressure is on you." Sitting in front of Zhang Chao was Wang Meng, who had just written the introduction to his interview. "I told you not to write so radically, but you disagreed.

This is the first time that an old man like you, a young junior, has taught me to write a "topic composition."

Zhang Chao laughed, stroked the cover of the sample copy of Hometown, and asked, "Do you have confidence in me?"

There was also a sample book in front of Wang Meng, which he had already flipped through halfway and spread out on the table. Wang Meng took off his reading glasses and sighed, "I was indeed worried before, but now——"

He reached out and patted the pages of the book, and continued: "I am a little worried about Pamuk."

Zhang Chao smiled and said, "So it seems that my writing is pretty good?"

Wang Meng nodded and said, "Not bad, not bad, very good. This may be the most ambitious and imaginative novel I have seen in recent years. It blurs the boundary between pure literature and popular literature."

Your expression is also very interesting, outside of memory and within memory, they are two completely different styles, but they can be connected together just right - interesting, interesting. "

Zhang Chao said: "With your words, I feel relieved."

Wang Meng asked: "When will it be released?"

Zhang Chao said, "Let's do it after we come back from Japan, at the end of October."

Wang Meng said: "This time is very suitable..."

……

While Zhang Chao and the others were chatting, Pamuk, who was far away in the United States, slammed the newspaper on the table and cursed in Turkish at his girlfriend Kiran Desai, but no one could understand him except himself.

(End of this chapter)