The Ming Dynasty did not revolutionize

Chapter 413 The result of the dispute is numbness
The Seventh Prince realized that his elder brother's so-called reference to his views was actually a hint that he could support him.

If the three princes who support the four-point plan give up their own unfeasible plan that has been eliminated and support the three-point plan that already has five people supporting it.

Then the three-point plan will get eight votes, reaching two-thirds of the total votes, allowing the three-point plan to be passed directly.

If they oppose the three-point plan, they cannot allow the two-point or four-point plan to pass. They can only make the vote unable to reach a result, and then everyone will go to ask the emperor for instructions.

At the same time, if I support the two-part plan at this time, it would be equivalent to actively cooperating with Lao Jiu and his four companions.

The key lies in whether to consult the emperor or support the three-part plan, to cooperate with the ninth brother or with the eldest brother, and which of these options will be more beneficial to oneself.

We also need to consider whether a plan that has no impact on us will bring additional benefits to others, thereby further affecting the overall balance.

Will my dad support my plan, or will he leave a bad impression because of my holding back?

There are too many unknown conditions and too few known conditions, and decisions must be made.

All you can do is eliminate non-critical interfering conditions as much as possible, and then make a decision based on your intuition.

When my elder brother expressed his opinions, he added his own personal ideas, which are the so-called suggestions he borrowed from me.

Other brothers who support the three-point plan may not accept it.

Got to get these things out of the way first.

The Seventh Prince had thought of it, and the Ninth Prince had also thought of it, so when the Seventh Prince was still considering it, the Seventh Prince had already asked back:

"May I ask, my Royal Brother, do all the brothers who support the three-division plan support the plan you just added to merge Zhaoqing and Luoding, and to establish a new government in Enping?"

There was no need for the eldest prince Zhu Jingkun to answer, as the other princes had already spoken:

“No, we have not put forward any corresponding plan.”

"We are currently only supporting the three-point Guangzhou Prefecture."

"Although what the eldest brother said may make sense, this is not the current topic."

"Please don't talk about other things, big brother."

Seeing the situation, the eldest prince Zhu Jingkun immediately added with a smile:

"That's right. Now the first thing to determine is whether it's three points or two points. If you don't have any other ideas, should we just vote directly?"

Now it was the brothers' turn to be confused. Was the big brother just bluffing?

The ninth prince Zhu Jingtan quickly picked up the topic:

"Of course I have other ideas, and I don't agree with my brother's reasons for opposing the binary plan.

“The biggest problem causing difficulties for Guangzhou government in governing is the areas such as Bao’an where construction is currently concentrated.

"As long as Baoan and other places are separated, the Guangzhou government can continue to govern.

"Guangdong Province is already large enough. After the split of Guangzhou, Zhaoqing and Huizhou, several new prefectures will be formed.

"Guangdong Province has too many prefectures and autonomous prefectures, which will also affect the administrative efficiency of Guangdong Province.

“So Guangzhou Prefecture should not be split too much.

“At the same time, it certainly makes sense to maintain a balance on both sides of the Pearl River Estuary, and it also makes sense to maintain Guangzhou’s central position in Guangdong Province.

“Guangzhou is now too big, which makes the center of Guangdong Province too heavy, but after three divisions, it will make the center too light.

“We can also refer to the four-division plan and split the area west of Xinning (Taishan), the most remote southwestern part of Guangzhou Prefecture.

"However, the entire Guangzhou Prefecture should not be split up as a whole. Only Dongguan and Bao'an can be split out."

The eldest prince Zhu Jingkun sighed inwardly, turned to look at his companions, and then continued to argue with the ninth prince:
“I still say that adjusting administrative divisions is only a means, not an end. The end is still to improve administrative efficiency.

"The purpose of splitting up oversized prefectures is to improve local management efficiency. If too many prefectures lead to difficulties in provincial management, then we should continue to split up provinces.

"Qiongzhou, Leizhou, Gaozhou, Lianzhou and other places can be separated and given to Guangxi or merged with southern Guangxi to establish a new province.

"Not adjusting the planning of prefectures and counties because of the difficulty of internal provincial management is a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater..."

The Ninth Prince certainly did not agree with his elder brother's reason:

“Improving management efficiency is a goal, but it is not the only goal. We must also control management costs as much as possible while improving efficiency.

“Whether there are too many prefectures or too many provinces, management costs will increase significantly.

“So whether it’s the prefectures, counties, or the four departments of the province, unless they really can’t be maintained any longer, they shouldn’t increase indefinitely.

“The government, in particular, is a transit agency responsible for transmitting information up and down, and does not directly handle grassroots civil affairs.

"There's nothing wrong with a slightly larger prefecture area."

The reasons given by both sides are reasonable, but they are based on different perspectives and consider different conditions, leading to different choices.

The key is that the two sides have basically established a confrontational relationship and will not make concessions on ambiguous issues.

The two sides debated back and forth for several rounds, and the other princes around became a little numb from listening.

After the two of them exchanged another round of verbal battle, the Seventh Prince could not help but raise his hand to interrupt them:
“I suggest that the number of rounds in a debate on a topic should be limited, otherwise two people who don’t give in to each other may argue forever.

“At the same time, it should not be dragged back and forth with meaningless rhetoric.

"The same point should be made only once, unless the opponent has a new counter-argument that can be emphasized or re-explained."

The princes around discussed it for a while, and the eldest prince and the ninth prince both chose to accept and support such basic restrictive rules.

The eleventh prince announced through his headset that the vote had been passed, and asked the clerk to record the new rules of procedure, then said:

“As for whether Guangzhou Prefecture should be divided into two or three parts, both sides have fully explained their reasons and grounds, and it seems meaningless to continue the debate.

"Let's start voting now. Please raise your hands if you support the two-point plan."

The ninth prince raised his hand first, then looked at his brothers around him and found that there were a total of five people raising their hands, including his own. One of them who originally supported the three-point plan came over.

Everyone's expressions were suddenly filled with subtle surprise.

The eleventh prince was also stunned for a moment, but he could only record the result:
“Five people supported it, which is less than two-thirds, but more than one-third, so it should be registered.

"Now, please raise your hands if you support the three-point solution."

The eleventh prince raised his hand and quickly looked at the people around him. He found that there were six people in total, including the eldest prince and himself.

One of the original five supporters left, and then two more who supported the four-point plan jumped over.

The seventh prince, who initially proposed the four-point plan, did not raise his hand, which means he still insisted on his four-point plan and did not support either the three-point or two-point plan.

After the results came out, everyone at the scene felt a little melancholy and a little annoyed about the situation.

The eleventh prince closed his eyes and remained silent for a few seconds, then opened his eyes and announced the final result:

“No proposal has received two-thirds of the votes, so we now have two options.

“First, continue the discussion and revision, and then vote again by raising hands.

“Second, directly sort out the current results and hand them over to the emperor for decision.

"This matter should also be put to a vote, right? So please raise your hands if you support continuing the discussion."

After the Eleventh Prince finished speaking, he looked around and found that only three people raised their hands: the Eleventh Prince, the Seventh Prince, and the Tenth Prince.

The eleventh prince thought about it for half a second and raised his hand as well:
“There were four votes in favor, and the proposal to continue the discussion was not passed.

"Please raise your hands if you support letting our father make the decision." Except for the four people mentioned previously, all the other princes raised their hands.

The eleventh prince counted and there were exactly eight:

"Eight votes in favor, reaching two-thirds of the votes, so please make the decision, father."

The eldest prince spoke at this time:

“Father asked us to discuss and decide on various matters internally, obviously hoping that we brothers can work together to solve the problem.

"Now we have to report to the emperor just about how many shares Guangzhou Prefecture should be divided into. Do you think the emperor will really be happy?"

The ninth prince Zhu Jingtan also let go and responded to Zhu Jingkun tit for tat:

"It is impossible for our father to allow us to make all decisions on our own, otherwise he would not have specifically reminded us to ask him for a decision on matters that we cannot decide.

“Moreover, we are now certain that we cannot come to any conclusion through internal discussion, and we can only let our father make the decision.

“We must at least let Father decide once to determine his true attitude.

"Even if Father gives us a collective reprimand, we will have a clear result and know not to do this again in the future."

The eldest prince shook his head and sighed, without expressing any further opinion.

The eleventh prince sighed in his heart, but on the surface he kept a straight face and continued to host the show without any expression:

“The matter of Guangzhou Prefecture has come to an end, let’s move on to discuss other issues.

"There is now a plan to split Zhaoqing and Huizhou, and a plan to merge Zhaoqing and Luoding after the split.

“As well as the merger plan of the southern part of Zhaoqing after the split, Enping and Yangjiang, Xinning and other places.

"The proposers will explain their reasons and ideas in turn, and then vote.

“Things that cannot be decided by voting will be sent to Father along with the Guangzhou Prefecture’s proposal for him to decide.

“My suggestion is that we try to collect as many voting results as possible and send them all together at once.

"So as to avoid asking questions to Father every day, which might make Father feel annoyed. What do you think?"

The princes present thought and discussed for a while, and basically accepted the suggestion of the Eleventh Prince. After all, he was the host today.

Then we began to discuss and analyze the administrative division adjustment plans for several different regions one by one.

The princes began to preach, then discussed or argued, and finally voted on specific matters.

Everyone worked on this for the entire afternoon, and the meeting lasted far longer than two hours.

Everyone was so engrossed at the time that they forgot the original agreement, and no one thought of asking for a new host.

The meeting had to be temporarily ended until it was almost dusk and everyone needed to have dinner.

The eleventh prince asked the clerk to organize the meeting resolution documents, and the princes went back to eat while considering their own reports.

The next morning, the princes did not continue the meeting, but instead thought about their own future plans.

The communications personnel accompanying the princes were all busy sending the meeting reports and the princes' reports to Shuntian Prefecture.

Because there were so many words, this task took me most of the day.

In the afternoon of the next day, Zhu Jianxuan of the New Palace of Beiyuan in the inner city of Shuntian Prefecture finally received a series of reports.

Zhu Jianxuan had already dealt with today's court affairs, so he flipped through it with interest.

Zhu Jianxuan looked at it for a while and couldn't help but burst into laughter, then he couldn't help but shook his head helplessly.

Zhu Jianxuan actually doesn't care much about whether Guangzhou Prefecture should be divided into two or three parts, or whether it will really use the four-part plan.

Each plan has its rationality and can be compromised and adjusted again.

Only the split on the east side of the Pearl River Estuary is more important, that is, to set up a separate Bao'an Prefecture in Dongguan, Shenzhen and Hong Kong.

There is no rush as to whether or when to build the Xiangshan Mansion on the west side.

There is no big problem in connecting Zhaoqing, Yunfu and Luoding together. The key is to place the prefectural government in Yunfu. It's a pity they came up with this idea.

The location of Yunfu County is too narrow, and it would be far better to continue to be located in Gaoyao County, Zhaoqing.

It is indeed feasible to separate Qiongzhou, Leizhou, Gaozhou and Lianzhou. Hainan was also separated in the previous life.

At that time, the capital of Guangxi was Guilin, and Guilin and Liuzhou and other places belonged to the Southwestern Mandarin area.

Places such as Nanning and Lianzhou in the south, that is, the southern part of Guangxi, belong to the Cantonese-speaking area similar to Guangdong.

As for Hainan Island and Leizhou Peninsula, they are the Min-speaking area, and most of the locals are descendants of those who sailed across the ocean from Fujian to settle there.

People are mobile and social customs are constantly evolving. Especially after the industrial age, the population composition and cultural atmosphere of a region will change faster.

Therefore, when setting up and dividing administrative regions, you can refer to local cultural customs and habits, but the natural geographical environment should still be the main basis.

The boundaries should be made of mountains and rivers as veins, which is the so-called "mountain and river type convenience", which is a convenient convenience.

Mountains have a natural barrier effect, so there are usually different cultural areas on both sides of the mountains.

It is usually difficult for an administrative center to manage areas on both sides of a mountain at the same time, not only because of cultural differences, but more importantly because of transportation issues.

Rivers naturally have a connecting function, so the areas on both sides of the river and upstream and downstream are usually the same or similar cultural areas.

Placing the administrative center near the main stream of the river will make it very convenient to coordinate the entire river basin.

The cultural environment within the jurisdiction is similar, and the key is that there are rivers connecting the subordinate areas, facilitating the internal exchange of personnel, materials and information.

Therefore, under purely natural conditions, the most reasonable provincial structure is that there are mountains around the province, plains in the middle, and rivers passing through the plains.

The provinces of Jiangxi, Huguang, Sichuan and other places in Shenzhou basically meet these conditions. They are not deliberately trying to create incompatibility and let people of different cultures restrain each other.

But Huguang is too large, so it was divided into Hunan and Hubei. After the split, it is still very close to the optimal solution.

The merger of Guangdong and Guangxi would also be very suitable, but the two places would be too large after the merger, so they can only be split into two parts.

If the Leizhou Peninsula at the westernmost tip of Guangdong is assigned to Guangxi, then both Guangdong and Guangxi will be close to the optimal situation.

If it were divided that way, Guangxi would have three different cultural divisions.

The southwestern Mandarin area in Guilin and Liuzhou, the Cantonese area in Nanning and Lianzhou, and the Minnan area in Leizhou and Qiongzhou.

However, Guangdong is also divided into three cultural areas. The Chaoshan area is considered the Minnan dialect area, the Guangfu area and most of the areas to the west are the Cantonese dialect area, with the Hakka dialect area in between.

If Leizhou and Qiongzhou belong to Guangdong, Guangdong is divided into three cultural areas and four parts, and the Min dialect is divided into two parts, east and west.

Although people in Leizhou and Qiongzhou and Chaoshan all speak Min dialect, there are still significant differences between them.

If the Qiongzhou and Leizhou regions were established as independent provinces, or were divided and administered by Guangxi, it would actually make the rest of Guangdong Province a little simpler internally.

Zhu Jianxuan had some ideas in his mind, but he did not directly reply to his sons and did not give them any direct decision.

Zhu Jianxuan sorted out his thoughts a little and wrote a telegram to remind them of the logic of doing things:

The plans you have proposed are only preliminary ideas on the surface. There is no need to rush to draw a conclusion, nor can we draw a conclusion directly.

After you arrive in Guangdong, you should conduct sufficient practical research in government offices at all levels in the provincial capital, prefectures and counties, and among different local groups of people, and then formulate a formal and final administrative division adjustment plan.

I want to see a truly in-depth investigation report, a final plan that is truly well-reasoned and well-founded, and also your debate process and final result.

(End of this chapter)