The Ming Dynasty did not revolutionize

Chapter 435 The Princes’ Dissatisfaction
The official representatives make their final statements and also give direct suggestions.

The noble representatives were all feeling rather disappointed, as they knew they had made significant concessions this time.

The state of the civilian representatives is just the opposite. They are generally quite happy. Although the ideal goal has not been achieved, most of the initial plans should be implemented.

The bureaucratic representatives were even more obviously jubilant. They now had control of the situation and gave the princes the most reasonable suggestions.

The princes should be very satisfied, and we should be able to obtain higher status and practical benefits in the future.

Now all three parties feel that the outcome of this matter has been decided.

Even if the final decision made by the princes did not completely adopt the suggestions of the official representatives, it should be not far off.

After the princes listened to the speeches of the representatives of the three parties, the eldest prince once again announced the suspension of the meeting and asked the representatives of each party to return to their residences to rest and wait for new meeting notices.

The Kingdom's Cabinet will discuss and make prudent judgments and decisions based on the opinions currently put forward by the three parties.

The Minister of Etiquette once again asked all the representatives to stand up and escort the princes out of the hall, then announced the end of the meeting and allowed the representatives of the three parties to leave in an orderly manner.

At the public meeting, the princes did not make any clear statements again except for their opening statements at the beginning of the meeting.

The main thing is that the opinions of the fifteen princes need to be unified before they can be announced to the outside as their common attitude.

Now that the meeting is over, the princes have returned to the palace and are resting directly after their meal.

The next morning, we received the official meeting minutes compiled by the cabinet and officially began internal deliberations.

The situation was not quite the same as what the three party representatives outside had imagined. The princes were not very satisfied with the results of the current discussions.

In particular, I am not satisfied with the performance of these bureaucrats.

The eldest prince Zhu Jingkun flipped through the meeting minutes and directly expressed his dissatisfaction:

“The civilian representatives seemed quite satisfied with the final recommendations of these bureaucrats, and the nobles seemed to have accepted their fate.

"They seem to think that the next step is to reform the Free State system in accordance with these suggestions.

“But the scope of the suggestions put forward by these bureaucratic representatives is really too broad, and the key is that there are also big problems in the content.

“For example, the requirement to promote Free State bureaucrats to the central court is to have the same upward mobility as officials from the dominions or even the provinces.

“This request seems to be harmless, and it will also be beneficial for us to strengthen our control over the dominions.

“But if we do so, it will undermine the basic principle of equal rights and responsibilities, which is something that our father specifically reminded us to avoid.

“They come from the Free State, and when they are in the local area, they have more autonomy than the provinces. The key is that they can be officials in the local area. Officials in the dominions are not temporary officials.

“If they are on the upward path and the upward trajectory, it’s the same as the provinces and territories that are more restrictive.

"That would give them a de facto higher status than provincial officials, which might lead to provincial officials becoming officials in the dominions.

“And this legal coordination body, which has people from all walks of life in the Free State, has the same problem.

"If this institution is established, people from all walks of life in the Free State will have the power to discuss legal issues directly with the royal court.

“And people in the provinces of the kingdom don’t have this power.

“Thus the Free State celebrities gained a higher social status than the provincial celebrities.

“The same may lead to a movement of the wealthy from the provinces to the Free State.

“At the same time, if these suggestions can really be implemented, it should really make the administration of the Free State much more clean.

“To make these free states more attractive overall.

"This runs counter to our plan to attract immigrants from the Free State—"

The fifth prince frowned and continued:
“That’s true. The former free states had greater freedoms, for example, they did not adopt the system of itinerant officials, so locals could serve as local officials.

"But this freedom corresponds to their limited room for advancement, and the best they can achieve is an official of a single free state.

“Officials in the kingdom’s provinces can be promoted all the way to the central court, or even the Ming Dynasty’s central court.

“The legal coordination body attended by people from all walks of life in the Free State is actually the Kingdom Parliament attended only by representatives from the Free State. This is the direct political power that my father mentioned.

"The people of the provinces and territories currently do not have this opportunity, so these two suggestions must not be adopted."

The tenth prince also said:
“Even if it is about other suggestions, such as the censor adopting public opinion, the provincial inspector investigating government officials, and the case being appealed to the royal court, it cannot be directly supported.

"If we implement these recommendations, the situation in the Free State will indeed be better.

"We had already made a plan based on our father's reminder to make the Free State a negative example in America, but this reform will greatly reduce our chances of success.

“But if we don’t implement it seriously, the civilian representatives who are watching this matter may realize that the court’s jurisdiction will not make their situation better.

"That might make these folk opinion leaders disappointed with the royal court, and affect the reputation of the royal court and even the Ming Dynasty among the people."

The Thirteenth Prince sighed and shook his head and said:
“The key is that they really asked for too much at once, and they needed sufficient personnel, funds and experience.

“Even if we really want to do it well, we may not be able to achieve our goals.”

Several princes around also nodded in agreement, and complained about the problems with these suggestions one after another.

As a habitual opponent, the Ninth Prince also spoke up and changed the topic:

"I don't think this is the point, the point is how we should decide now, we seem to have been put here.

“Now we are accepting the suggestions of bureaucrats directly, making it seem as if the reforms were made by these bureaucrats.

“If we don’t accept it, it might disappoint these unruly leaders.

"There is something wrong with the arrangement of our meeting."

The impulsive Seventh Prince rarely agreed with the Ninth Prince's statement:
“This kind of large-scale public meeting involves a large number of participants and is very complex.

“They all have their own interests and ideas, and if there is no adequate research and planning before the meeting, it is difficult to fully predict the outcome before the meeting.

“Ultimately it shouldn’t be complicated proposals made by bureaucrats, and especially not in public.

“They should write memorials and make suggestions, which we should then publish through the bureaucratic system after we adopt them, rather than making them public before we adopt them.

"They are letting public opinion hold us hostage."

The words of the Seventh Prince and the Ninth Prince were also agreed by many princes, and the Eldest Prince and the Tenth Prince did not object either.

Now, even the princes who were accustomed to confronting each other discovered problems that they needed to face together when facing the results of this meeting.

The princes' way of thinking is quite different from that of the bureaucrats, nobles and ordinary people, and their perspectives on issues are also very different.

The direct purpose of the nobles is to maintain their current special status and vested interests.

Bureaucrats want higher status and greater freedom.

Civilian representatives wanted to limit the power of the nobility and reduce or even get rid of their oppression and exclusion.

The princes wanted them to continue the confrontation, slowing down the construction and development of the Free State and serving as a negative example for the entire Americas.

The results of the current meeting have made the princes start to consider the issue of the parliamentary system. The princes know about the parliament, but have never actually participated in it. The meeting of the past two days is actually of a parliamentary nature.

It means that representatives from all parties gather together to discuss the issues, balance the interests of all parties through compromise, and solve problems other than fundamental ones.

They realized that parliamentary politics was too volatile and too difficult to control.

Decision-making in secret meetings of small groups of a few people and public consultative meetings involving a large number of people are two completely different political forms.

The princes now gained their first experience of parliamentary politics.

After the princes complained for a while, they immediately changed the subject because complaining would not solve the problem.

The Fifteenth Prince, who rarely spoke, was the first to bring the topic back on track:
“I think we should generally accept the suggestions made at today’s meeting.

“It’s just that we can’t just copy it directly, and we can’t start implementing it all at once.

"We need to eliminate the unreasonable ones, or modify them to what we can accept, and then add our plan to it.

"Then we will discuss with them privately and set a timetable to gradually implement it.

“The specific approach cannot be done in the way of today’s meeting, but must be done in accordance with local traditional methods.

"We must find a way to avoid such large-scale public meetings in the future..."

The eldest prince immediately agreed with the fifteenth prince's proposal and resumed presiding over the meeting:

“Fifteenth brother is right. We should try to avoid such meetings in the future. Now let’s deal with the issues at hand first.

“We will now discuss the suggestions of the bureaucratic representatives one by one.

"Let's start with the most civilian issue, regarding the issue of allowing Free State officials to be promoted to the Royal Court.

"Should we reject it outright, or are there other ways to compromise and adjust? Let's all speak freely."

As soon as the eldest prince finished speaking, several princes immediately said that they should refuse directly.

However, in this environment, some people also proposed a way to adjust the topic, which was the fifteenth prince who brought the topic back on track:

“If they want to be promoted to the royal court like provincial officials, they must abide by the same selection and appointment conditions as provincial officials.

“They must be selected through the kingdom’s imperial examination system and assigned by the kingdom’s personnel department.

"And all chief officials must be temporary officials. Locals cannot serve as chief officials in their hometowns. At most, they can only serve as clerks."

When the Seventh Prince heard this, he laughed dryly and said:
"This condition...would be difficult for both the nobles of the Free State and the bureaucrats themselves to accept."

The eldest prince seemed to understand:

“If they accept it, then it can be implemented naturally, which is fair to provincial officials.

"If they don't accept it, then that's the reason why we refuse, and the reason is fairness, and they can't dispute it."

The fifteenth prince smiled and cupped his hands and said:
"What the elder brother said is absolutely true."

The eldest prince Zhu Jingkun also laughed, and then looked around at his brothers:

"What do you think? If there are no other suggestions or ideas, how about we just vote directly?"

The princes considered it for a while, and finally no one objected.

So the eldest prince organized a vote, and this suggestion was directly agreed by the majority.

Only two opposition parties led by the Ninth Prince did not raise their hands.

However, this did not affect the result. The eldest prince asked the clerk to record it and then continued to discuss the next question:
“Next, there is the suggestion that each free state should send representatives to jointly discuss and coordinate legal conflicts. I personally think this suggestion is also problematic.

“This suggestion is to make the current meeting a regular one and turn this temporary meeting into an incomplete Kingdom Parliament.

"My father has long ago specifically educated and reminded us that convening a parliament to discuss matters together is a fallback policy.

“Try not to use this system unless it is absolutely necessary.

"So we also need to discuss whether to reject it directly or change it to a more appropriate way, or organize a suitable reason for rejection."

The eldest prince did not make his words completely clear, but the princes present understood him instantly.

Because they received the same early education, and their political education was taught personally by their emperor father.

According to the teachings of their father, parliament is poison to the monarch.

It is a concession option made in order to prevent the court from collapsing when the national situation is about to get out of control, public opinion is surging and the monarch is completely unable to control it.

Once the parliament is convened, the monarch and the court will inevitably have to give up their interests and power, and their power will be further restricted in the future.

Therefore, as long as the monarch and the court are still able to control the situation, try not to establish a parliamentary institution.

It is impossible to set up a special consultative body to deal with the legal conflicts between different free states and kingdoms. That body is an informal parliament.

Once an informal parliament is established, it will gradually gain more power and slowly become a real parliament.

The existence of the parliament will allow the source of power of state institutions to gradually shift from the monarch to the people, truly realizing that the people are more important than the monarch and the country is second.

Once sovereignty is truly vested in the people, the status of royal family members and nobles will be lowered.

After all, the monarch is lower than the common people, and the royal family and nobles who depend on the monarch's status have no right to ride on the heads of the common people.

The future monarch and royal nobles certainly cannot support parliamentary politics.

The Second Prince, who had been the supervisor of Xingyu this time, spoke up:

“This task can only be handled by the Ministry of Justice, which will be presided over by the existing Minister of Justice in the Kingdom’s court.

“And it requires specific coordination of specific conflicting issues, and temporary meetings to be held on an ad hoc basis.

“It is also not possible to directly nominate fixed representatives from the public to participate.

“It can be done using traditional local methods, through our imperial examination system and bureaucratic system.

"Let those who have obtained fame through the imperial examination system but have no official positions, as well as retired bureaucrats, serve as representatives of the people."

After listening to this, the eldest prince casually asked:
"There is nothing wrong with the logic of this solution, but how should we respond to them? We need a more public reason."

The second prince thought for a moment and said:
“Things that are to be handled by the Kingdom’s court must be handled in the manner of the Great Ming and the Kingdom, not in the parliamentary form of the Free State.

“The Free State’s system was not rational in the first place, which led to the current problems. How can we raise the Free State’s problems to the level of the kingdom?
"Wouldn't that mean turning the American Kingdom into a large free state? Is that still the goal pursued by the American people?"

The second prince's several mock rhetorical questions made the surrounding princes nod their heads.

The tenth prince smiled and said:
"That's the logic. We just need to point out that this kind of meeting is a chaotic system of the Free State and that the orderly royal court would never use it."

Seeing that the discussion was almost over, the eldest prince announced a vote on the topic, and the result was naturally passed with a high majority.

(End of this chapter)