My aunt is Queen Ma

Chapter 48 Killing Two Birds at Once (asking for monthly ticket)
Facing Zhu Yuanzhang's questioning, Ma Yu held up two fingers and said:
"First, the division between the north and the south; second, the rise of the gentry clans."

Zhu Yuanzhang frowned and said, "What do you mean? Explain it clearly."

Empress Ma and Zhu Biao were also very confused. They could think of some things about the rise of the main gentry clans, but they didn't have much idea about the division between the north and the south.

Ma Yu thought to himself, those involved are really confused.

"Since the end of the Tang Dynasty, the country has been divided into four parts, and during the Song Dynasty, it was divided into north and south."

"The Han people in the north and south, influenced by the environment and other factors, have each developed their own customs and habits."

"Although everyone calls themselves Han Chinese and follows the teachings of Confucius and Mencius, their accents are different, their diets are different, and their clothing is different."

"These differences make each side feel unfamiliar when looking at the other, and it's hard for them to see each other as fellow races."

"You should be able to sense this gap. Think carefully about whether this is the case."

Zhu Biao was a little confused. After all, he was young and had lived in the deep palace most of the time, so he lacked understanding of the outside world.

Queen Ma looked thoughtful.

Zhu Yuanzhang, as the monarch, was the most sensitive to this aspect and said:

"Officials from the north and south really dislike each other."

Zhu Biao asked doubtfully, "Isn't this a struggle for interests? Officials are forming cliques based on regions, teachers, and students to attack officials from other places."

Zhu Yuanzhang shook his head and said, "No, even if they share the same political views, they will hardly join hands. This is no longer explained by interests."

"I used to be a little confused about why this happened, but after listening to Ma Yu's analysis, I realized that it was due to a split in ideology."

Zhu Biao frowned and said, "I see. This matter cannot be taken lightly. If it continues like this, the court will be plunged into factional strife."

Zhu Yuanzhang was just about to say that this might not be a bad thing.

But Ma Yu spoke first: "Do you think the harm caused by the North-South divide ends here?"

"Are the Xiongnu, Turks, and Khitans strong?"

Zhu Biao nodded and said, "They were both very prosperous at one time."

After all, they were once forces that suppressed the Han dynasty.

Ma Yu then asked, "Where are they now?"

Without giving them time to think, he continued:

"The Han people also fell into a slump and were defeated and ruled by foreign races. Why didn't they disappear?"

"Not only did they not disappear, but their population grew even stronger."

"How can we always assimilate and absorb the alien races that invade us? What do we rely on?"

Zhu Biao's eyes lit up and he said, "I know, culture."

"We are civilized people with good manners. The barbarians yearn for our culture, actively learn from us, and then are assimilated by us."

"Even when we were at our lowest point, we never gave up our culture, so it didn't disappear."

"Although the Xiongnu, Turks, and Khitans were powerful, they did not have their own culture."

"After being defeated, they were quickly assimilated into other ethnic groups, so they disappeared."

Ma Yu nodded and said, "Yes, because we are educated."

"Culture is a bond that allows a group of people who have no blood relationship to feel a sense of identity."

"In the end, it formed a large, cohesive group."

“Even if you hit rock bottom again and again, you can always stand up again.”

“No matter how powerful the enemy is, they cannot destroy us as a group unless they destroy our culture.”

"But now, we are divided from within, making it much easier for the enemy to deal with us."

At this time, Zhu Yuanzhang also reacted and broke out in a cold sweat at his own thoughts.

Just now I actually thought that differentiation was a good thing, as it would be beneficial to achieving balance.

This kind of thinking is really dangerous.

If the Han people in the north and south really split, the Ming Dynasty would probably be gone in no time.

This principle is actually not complicated, even if we put aside cultural and ethnic identity.

Inconsistencies in ideology and cognition can bring huge troubles to the country and even cause division.

Qin Shi Huang standardized the writing system, the wheel gauge, and the weights and measures in order to unify cognition.

Emperor Wu of Han abolished all schools of thought and promoted Confucianism alone in order to achieve ideological unity.

Perhaps they themselves do not realize that their policies have shaped a unified ethnic consciousness.

But at least they understand one thing: unified thinking will help the long-term stability of the country.

The same goes for Zhu Yuanzhang. Perhaps he didn't know how big a disaster the division between the Han people in the north and south would be from an ethnic perspective.

However, they knew that such a situation would be an unbearable disaster for the Ming Dynasty itself.

Zhu Biao naturally understood the key points and said solemnly:
"How should this matter be resolved?"

Zhu Yuanzhang and Empress Ma also looked at him. Although they both had many ideas, they still wanted to hear his opinion.

Ma Yu shook his head and said, "Don't worry, let's talk about the second question later."

"Then the two problems can be solved together."

Zhu Biao said thoughtfully, "I roughly guess what you are going to say, but I still want to hear your analysis."

"After all, I only know the facts but not the reasons behind them."

Ma Yu smiled and said, "If you understand this, then it will be easy to talk about it."

"As we mentioned earlier, the Tang Dynasty abolished rural officials in order to reduce administrative costs."

“Then there’s a power vacuum in the countryside.”

"Power hates emptiness. If the imperial court doesn't care, other forces will step in to fill the void."

“So who will fill this gap?”

"The Tang Dynasty is too far away from us to worry about. Let's just look at the Song Dynasty."

"The Song Dynasty relaxed personal restrictions on the people."

"People began to live together based on blood ties, and gradually clans were formed."

"And the clan fills this gap perfectly."

"Among Wang Anshi's reforms was the Baojia system."

"On the surface, the Baojia system was designed to prevent people from committing crimes through the system of collective responsibility."

"In reality, it's to compete with clan forces for the management of the village."

"Unfortunately, his reforms failed, the Baojia system was abolished, and clan power still dominated the countryside."

Zhu Biao nodded continuously, especially the explanation of the Baojia system, which made his eyes light up.

He naturally knew about Wang Anshi's reforms, but he did not study them in depth, and was unable to understand many parts due to his age.

Ma Yu's explanation was simple and easy to understand, and his analysis was thorough and convincing, which made him suddenly enlightened.

Zhu Yuanzhang and Empress Ma were similar, they themselves knew more about these things.

After listening to Ma Yu's analysis, I felt a sense of sudden enlightenment.

Combining Ma Yu’s lectures with Wang Anshi’s reform itself, I just feel it was too naive.

How can you succeed if you try to change something without recognizing the essence of the matter?

Ma Yu paused for a moment before continuing:

"But generally speaking, during the Song Dynasty, clan power was still in its infancy and not very strong."

"The imperial court can still exert influence on the people."

"But things were different during the Yuan Dynasty. Their inaction gave the clans room to grow wildly."

"The most crucial thing is the combination of gentry and local clans."

"The original clan power was actually a group of illiterate people, connected by blood ties."

"They are still at the bottom of society."

"The gentry are different. They are the scholar class with Confucian origins and disdain to associate with lower-ranking clans."

"At least at that time, the phenomenon of Confucian scholars and clan connections was not too serious."

"The Yuan Dynasty didn't buy into Confucianism and frequently abolished the imperial examination system." "When the imperial examinations were occasionally held, eight out of ten admitted were Mongols or Semites. It was extremely difficult for Confucian scholars to pass the examinations and become officials."

"Confucian scholars who had no way to become officials could only work as clerks in government offices."

"Clerks are grassroots positions that require frequent interactions with clans, and the two sides quickly connect with each other."

"The clerks became the clan's official spokespersons, and the clan became the clerks' backers."

"In the past, there were no channels for communication between clans, and there was very little contact between them."

"With the help of Confucian scholars, things will be different."

"Clans began to collude with each other, and with the gentry acting as their spokespersons, a vast network was woven."

"It will firmly envelop the countryside and completely drive the imperial court out of the countryside."

"From then on, a situation arose where the imperial power did not extend below the county level."

"The north was right under the Mongols' noses, and with the constant wars, the gentry clans had not yet taken shape."

"But the south is different. You can send someone to investigate."

"That place is dominated by the gentry and clans. It's really impenetrable."

"Let alone whether the imperial court's policies can be implemented, it's hard to say whether tax revenue can be collected normally."

"Once the Ming Dynasty has conquered the separatist forces in the south and unified the country, it will have to face the power of the gentry and clans."

Zhu Yuanzhang snorted coldly and said, "They are just clay chickens and clay dogs. We can destroy them in a snap of our fingers."

Ma Yu smiled and said, "I have no doubt about this. As the founding monarch, it would be very easy for you to target them."

"But they are not fools. They know how to lie dormant."

"When you are not paying attention, it will grow stronger silently."

"Furthermore, the Ming Dynasty will sooner or later introduce the imperial examination system, and the gentry will be able to enter the government through the examination, and gradually penetrate into the bureaucratic system."

"After a few decades or even hundreds of years, they will become a giant once again, and their representatives will be everywhere in the officialdom."

"By then, your descendants won't have the control you have, and they'll have no choice but to compromise in the face of this huge network."

Zhu Yuanzhang's eyes were cold: "We will not leave this disaster to our descendants."

Zhu Biao's expression was also solemn, and his tone unconsciously carried a hint of murderous intent:
"We must take advantage of this moment to completely eliminate them and never give them the opportunity to become bigger."

Ma Yu was secretly shocked. Boss Zhu's true nature was finally revealed.

No wonder Zhu Yuanzhang was so satisfied with him. This guy combined the kindness of Empress Ma and the brutality of Zhu Yuanzhang.

But he was more roundabout than Zhu Yuanzhang, and knew how to wrap up violence with benevolence, and he kept a low profile in normal times.

Others don't even notice it.

Only when he senses danger will he reveal his violent side.

Obviously, he felt threatened by the power of the gentry clans.

However, his feeling was not wrong. At present, the gentry clan forces were indeed unable to confront the imperial court.

Think about the middle and late Ming Dynasty in our previous life...

Queen Ma also showed a thoughtful expression, and then asked:
"Yu'er, just now you said that we can solve both problems at the same time, but do you have a plan?"

Ma Yu nodded and said, "I do have an immature idea."

"In fact, you should be able to guess that it is population migration."

"For hundreds of years, wars and chaos were mainly concentrated in the north. Now, Shanxi has a relatively large population."

"The combined population of Shaanxi, Henan, and Shandong provinces is probably less than four million."

In fact, at that time, Henan's population was only about 800,000, Shandong's population was about 1.2 million, and Shaanxi's population was only about one million.

The three provinces combined have a population of only about three million.

Ma Yu naturally couldn't give an exact number, so he said it was less than four million.

Even if it is said to be high, this number is still very shocking.

You should know that these three provinces are the Central Plains in the traditional sense, and they were the richest and most densely populated areas before the Tang Dynasty.

Now there are less than four million people in total.

You can imagine how miserable it is.

"In contrast, the south is relatively stable and has the most densely populated area."

"The imperial court can completely relocate the excess population in the south to the north."

"In this way, the problem of North-South divide will become apparent."

"Besides, it's the imperial court that decides who will be relocated."

"Learn from the methods of the Han and Tang dynasties, split up the southern clans, and put dozens of surnames in one village."

"It will be difficult for them to unite and fight against the imperial court in the short term."

Zhu Biao clapped his hands and sighed, "Good idea."

"It not only strikes a blow to clan power, but also resolves the north-south divide and, incidentally, solves the problem of insufficient population in the north."

“It’s like killing two birds with one stone.”

Zhu Yuanzhang and Empress Ma also nodded secretly, as this method coincided with what they thought.

Immigration is indeed the best way to solve these problems.

They both knew that the gentry clans would not completely disappear because of immigration.

Given dozens or hundreds of years, those people will eventually form clan forces.

However, let's solve the current problem first. There will be plenty of time later to find ways to curb the power of the gentry clans.

Thinking of this, Queen Ma smiled and said, "Yes, you have helped us solve another problem."

"Do you have anything else to say about land and population?"

Ma Yu shook his head and said, "That's all. If I can think of anything else later, I'll tell you."

Empress Ma then asked, "Have your family elders ever mentioned what kind of system should be adopted when establishing a new dynasty?"

Ma Yu thought for a moment and said, "I did say some, but not all, and I don't remember most of it."

"How about this, you guys think about it first, and I'll go back and think about it carefully and see how much I can remember."

"When the time comes, we can all express our ideas and verify each other's opinions. Maybe we can find a suitable system."

It’s not that he doesn’t want to continue, but he has said enough.

Even if you state the specific measures, they may not necessarily understand them, and even if they do understand them, they may not necessarily support them.

It would be better to let them think for themselves first. If they can come up with a better solution, that would be the best.

If they can't think of a better one, it will be easier to convince them if you put forward your own ideas.

Empress Ma nodded and said with a smile, "That's fine. Let's think carefully about what you said today."

"Let's see if we can gain more."

Afterwards, they reviewed the previous topic, mainly Zhu Yuanzhang and the other two, and asked questions about some things they did not understand.

Ma Yu answered them one by one according to his own understanding until the three of them understood thoroughly.

Seeing that it was getting late and the family of three must have something to say, Ma Yu tactfully stood up and said goodbye.

Empress Ma did not try to keep him and asked Zhu Biao to personally escort him to the gate.

The prince personally sent it off, which is a very high standard.

But compared to the knowledge I just gave them, this is nothing.

After Ma Yu left, Zhu Biao returned to the table and sat down again, suddenly sighing:

"Every time I listen to him talk about something, I feel like I know nothing, and today was especially so."

There will be another update in the afternoon or evening.

I have really tried my best to write this.

Everyone, please see that I have been typing until three in the morning and still haven’t slept, so if you have any extra monthly tickets, please vote for me.

Thank you.

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(End of this chapter)