The First Prince of the Ming Dynasty

Zhu Yi chuckled and said, "Mr. Wei, you really have no scruples when you ask questions. You say this is the Ming Dynasty, yet you allow a commoner to presume to discuss what one should do as emperor? You dare to ask, but I dare not answer."

Zhu Chenhao's face lit up with delight as he said, "Please speak freely."

"Since you've asked, I can't answer directly, so I'll try a different approach."

Zhu Yi certainly couldn't be too hasty. This wasn't even considered "walls have ears," there were three pairs of ears listening across the table.

If this really is the Ming Dynasty, I'll have to figure out how to survive!

"In traditional agricultural societies, due to low social productivity, the amount of grain a laborer could obtain from one acre of land after a year of hard work remained basically unchanged, provided the harvest was not exceptionally bad. This remained unchanged for thousands of years."

In other words, unless a large amount of wasteland is reclaimed or grain production significantly increases, the population that a place's land can support is basically fixed. I wonder if Mr. Wei agrees with this?

Zhu Yi was also afraid that what he was saying would not be accepted by people of this era, just as he could not understand the technical books on surveying and mapping of this era.

When you're explaining something, the first thing you have to make sure the listener can understand it.

Zhu Chenhao nodded slightly and said, "That's probably it. In fact, the number of registered households and people in the Ming Dynasty has not changed much over the years, and it may even decrease in years of famine."

Gongsun Jin added from the side, "The same applies to the local population."

Zhu Yi said, "Then let me ask you this: if the Central Plains, a land known for its grain production, suffers from disasters for several consecutive years, and the imperial court continues to increase levies due to foreign wars, causing local gentry and nobles to seize the land cultivated by the people, how will they be able to afford the poll tax and land tax? In the end, after a year of hard work, not only will the grain they earn be insufficient to feed themselves, but they will also have to sell their children to survive. What will the people choose in such a situation?"

Liu Yangzheng, who was listening nearby, couldn't stand it any longer and said, "No matter how hard the people's lives are, that's no reason for them to become bandits! Migration and fleeing famine have been common occurrences in every dynasty. Young Master Zhu, don't let your absurd words disrupt the rites and education of the Ming Dynasty."

Zhu Yi had always looked down on Liu Yangzheng, and now that he had been directly refuted, he retorted without any politeness: "Mr. Wen, it is precisely because there are scholars like you who like to use grand principles to intimidate people that there is a lack of normal understanding and communication between the ruling class and the people."

The upper class wants stability, while the common people want a livelihood... What's the point of etiquette and education when they can't even afford food? "When granaries are full, people know etiquette"—this is a principle even the sages understood. Why then should we demand that those who haven't even received much education uphold moral principles when they are struggling to make ends meet or even resorting to cannibalism?

"You... spouting nonsense!" Liu Yangzheng was almost furious, but he held back.

Not only because Prince Ning was present today, but also because he knew that the main purpose today was to expose Tang Yin.

So you jumped up first?

Clearly, Prince Ning is on his son's side!

Tang Yin, who was still watching the show, was starting to feel confused and even began to doubt himself... What am I here for today?

Watching them argue? Arguing with someone who claims to be from hundreds of years in the future?

Zhu Chenhao said, "It is true that the granary officials know etiquette, but the common people must also abide by etiquette and law. Let's not argue about right and wrong anymore. Please continue."

It's like trying to smooth things over.

Zhu Yidao said: "So by the end of the Ming Dynasty, a situation would emerge where the court had its own helplessness, the people had their own grievances, and no matter how capable the officials were, they could not reverse the overall situation. The soldiers could not even get enough to eat, let alone win battles. As a result, everything collapsed in an orderly manner. Everyone seemed to have done their best, but in the end, it seemed that nothing had been done."

Everything collapsed, dynasties fell, foreign invaders marched south and slaughtered, the population plummeted, and when order was rewritten, when the land could once again support the remaining population, everything seemed to return to normal, and new dynasties began to be established, and the cycle repeated itself.

Tang Yin almost laughed when he heard this.

I'm here listening to you talk about the rise and fall of dynasties? It sounds very reasonable, but actually... it's all correct nonsense!

Which dynasty didn't have its own difficulties when it collapsed?

"Several hundred years later, a Westerner summarized this as the Malthusian trap, which means that the population of traditional agricultural societies increases far more rapidly than the increase in food production. Once the population increases to a point that society cannot sustain, it will inevitably be accompanied by major wars, famines and plagues, until the population declines sharply and everything returns to normal."

Zhu Yi also gave a special explanation of the underlying theoretical principles.

Zhu Chenhao lowered his eyes, pondered for a moment, and then asked, "Brother Zhu, you say you want to change people's lives, but actually you just want to change... this trap?"

"Yes."

Zhu Yi had a relatively high opinion of the person in front of him.

This at least shows that the person is not pedantic.

That's just how agricultural societies are.

What about the endless cycle of dynastic changes?

To put it bluntly, that's the inevitable trend of an agricultural society... If you don't change the pattern of an agricultural society, this will be the pattern for thousands or tens of thousands of years.

If your population explodes, your society's resilience will be extremely poor. Once it encounters any natural disaster, man-made calamity, or foreign invasion, it is prone to collapse. In the end, when only one-tenth or even less of the population remains, the entire system will be reshuffled and the cycle will begin again...

"Then how can we change it?" Gongsun Jin waited for a while, and seeing that Zhu Chenhao didn't ask, he couldn't help but ask.

Zhu Yi said, "If the people are no longer bound to the land, and can engage in industry and commerce, such as mining, smelting, manufacturing, and textiles, then the people's livelihood will be greatly improved."

Liu Yangzheng said dismissively, "People who do farm work can't even support themselves, let alone go out to do other jobs. They'll be even less able to support themselves, and won't even more people starve to death?"

Upon hearing this, Tang Yin couldn't help but take a look at Liu Yangzheng.

It's as if to say, "I never thought you were so brilliant! You actually have the ability to refute a child? Congratulations!"

"Mr. Wen, do you believe that by the end of the Ming Dynasty, the people starved to death because they couldn't afford food, or even turned to bandits, which ultimately led to the collapse of the dynasty?" Zhu Yi suddenly asked with a smile.

Liu Yangzheng said, "Young Master Zhu, did you forget what you said earlier as soon as you turned your back?"

You yourself said that the Ming Dynasty perished due to natural disasters and man-made calamities, due to foreign invasions, and due to bandits...

Now that he realizes his theory doesn't hold water, is he going to deny it?

"To put it bluntly, in the late Ming Dynasty, due to the increase in land tax, and the fact that powerful and wealthy people, such as scholars, officials, and princes, did not have to pay taxes on their land, the imperial tax revenue was greatly reduced. Local authorities dared not exploit the powerful and wealthy, but could only exploit the common people."

Ultimately, this led to a situation where people had land but dared not cultivate it, forcing them to flee famine, resulting in vast stretches of uninhabited land and abandoned fields in the Central Plains and surrounding areas. Is this what Mr. Wen hoped to see?

When Zhu Yi mentions this, he feels that the rulers of the Ming Dynasty lacked decisiveness.

They just didn't have the guts to attack the aristocratic families.

Why should those with power and influence be exempt from the power structure? The poor at the bottom pay taxes, while the rich don't?

Although a dynasty needs a class to govern the country, this class often does not only serve one dynasty; they are only responsible for their own interests.

And they naively believed that even if dynasties changed, their interests would be preserved.

The result was that I didn't stop the thief when he came, and he threw me into the river.